Melee Scratchpad

This is a messy scratchpad of misc. melee thoughts + notes from practicing or studying.

• uptilt -> dair vs on shield
• waveland off stage bair
• sh needle -> stand to either f tilt or turnaround wd ledge
  • jmook walks to ledge a lot
• SDI out vs fox bair and nairs at low % after up throw stuff
• fox trot turn around grab + dash back pivot grab
• learn fox's threat range from ledge
• when can i nair out of up throw?
• bair vs drill, cc vs nair
• fox up air pokes vs sheik on dif plats

fox vs sheik mixup pattern 1 => dash in attack 2 => dash back, dash in attack 3 => dash in, dash back, dash attack - strongest vs. sheik OR 3 => dash in, fh aerial

attack => running shine, running grab, running nair

sheik has to do something against 1 bc otherwise she gets run over

3 is strong bc 1 is strong (clown nair)

for know where to place moves in neutral (think sheik bair)

• want to mitigate chaos
• can disengage if something doesn't fit plan

sheik wins by positioning not %

sheik rising sh fair vs fox when it'll murder him , catch him jumping oos

sheik fair while recovering, end of fair hitbox barely touches ledge, can help defend vs run off shine / run sh off shine

when sheik has to up b on stage and fox does falling up air, sdi and hard di towards center stage

fox drill as whiff punish

trying to react to sheik and whiff punish is basically impossible

3 of medium dash in, small dash back, dash in attack

sheik can punish any attack but has to hard call it

wait from sheik vs 3, fox can do 1

walling sheik (bair / up tilt) as fox doesn't make sense vs sheik, not a 1 or 3

fox can fh double laser, drop through laser on big stages, play non-interactive game

• can be useful to get sheik to get to range where a 1 is unreactable
• can trade % w/ laser vs needle, not worth as fox when you are low% bc of losing CC, good as fox when lasers will get sheik to kill %

fox wants to challenge sheik's landing mixup, doesn't want to be dashing back

• landing mixup being action in same space immediately following landing for level 1
• evolves w/ movement post landing

fox wants to be as close as possible but outside back air range

• fox can challenge by getting under and cc / up tilt tho

fox gets walled by late bair

• can wait it out and see if sheik does another one, can cringe nair it etc.

fox edgeguard sheik fox should only roll when sheik hitbox can hit you, otherwise standard get up

sheiks back air mixups are KEY

plats interrupt fh mix ups, removes early aerial from the mixup options

• can still do late or dj stuff tho

fh allows fox to dj away to the plat as a safety net

below is pulled from a now deleted chef rach thread

it gets complicated....so nair utilt is more realistic on di behind than di in front to get it to actually connect because of the shape of sheik's hurtbox (ily so ill elaborate til the lint cleaners r here) but it's still pretty finnicky they're here so imma b quick

anyways on di in front because fox doesn't waste the turnaround frame for dash back and hurtbox is worse anyways he can just uair 1f sooner (which iirc is 7% sooner so prob like 7-8%?) and i wouldn't say "not worry" because sheik fox is like, 30 execution tests lmfao it's hard

i actually think p4 is p balanced in that mu cuz for me who really plays advantage well id want p4 but for a lot of foxes they prob want p1 as shine grab is godlike but nair utilt is p niche as a concern and is more of a knowledge check/mental stack in most situations u see it

there's v specific spots where p4 is way better but we're really cutting hairs at that point since the 0% isn't super scary and drill waveshine grab is about enough for it to start equalizing anyways (iirc 15% is where it didn't meaningfully matter, so quite low)

but when compared to someone like, say falcon, who literally gets true combo throw knee (broken) vs throw uair at knee kill % and beyond uair combo % (trash) it is quite trivial when the situation is played how i personally believe to be proper